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A groundbait approach on a difficult water?

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  • A groundbait approach on a difficult water?

    I fish a venue which is good pleasure fishing (70lb bags on pellet corn etc) but completley changes in a match. It is predominentley stocked with carp which are mostly in the 8oz to 1lb 8oz bracket with the odd one about 3lb, and there is a reasonable head of tench (well, they are a bonus fish, usually a good handful come out in each match and they are mostly 4lb or over, but rarely more than one per angler is caught.) There is little in the way of quality silver fish, mostly they are "plips" but the occasional skimmer shows up.

    In a match situation, the fish shut up shop and there can be some abysmal winning weights. Fishing close in and down the edge rarely works, although odd fish can be picked up. Fishing shallow doesnt work because there arent enough fish to compete when there is a whole load of anglers on the lake. When i fish it, i often cup in say half a cup of 3mm pellet with a little corn at 11 or 13m, leave it for a while as i check my inside swims (might pick up one or two early fish but thats all for the duration of the match) and then i go out and have a drop in on pellet or corn. Usually 3 or 4 of the stockie carp will follow, and then i refeed in a similar way and struggle for bites. I also dont get bites if i dont refeed. Its about 6ft deep at 13m, and from 8m it steadily slopes up getting gradually shallower right out to 16m and beyond.

    I read an interesting article by adam wakelin on fishing a positive groundbait approach for slivers in winter. It got me thinking, maybe doing this would work on the venue i fish, because then i could feed once really heavily (e.g six to eight jaffas full of squats, caster and pellet) and then just sit over it all day without topping up, or at least not for several hours. Does anyone think this approach would be too positive for such a venue, where 30lb would be a really good weight usually (last match won with 20!.) Do you understand my thinking that feeding once heavily might let the fish settle a bit and so i could just catch whatever drifted in throughout the day rather than keep forcing the peg and trying to attract more fish? I may be totally wrong but its something that other people dont do, especially putting in squatts which i think should hold the carps interest when they do turn up. I would fish over this with maggot, or if i could bitted out then i would switch to probably corn.

    So go on, whats your opinion on that for an approach? I need to find a way to get a balance so that it will work if my swim fishes well or there is a slightly larger weight on the cards, but also i can just fish it out if the match turns out to be a struggle as it so often does.

  • #2
    surely someone can help me out?

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    • #3
      Its the same old story, you can gaurantee that weights will be about half what you can do pleasuring, thats angler pressure it seems to me that you need a different approach, if at 8 metre it is the deepest part of your peg that would be one line I would feed, its a natural holding place for feed, in fact I would have two lines there one at 10 o clock and one at 2 the 13 metre line is one they can back off to. Alternate between the two 8 metre lines this will give the fish chance to re-settle. The inside line is best drip feed and fished late in the match it must be fed or they wont stop.
      As far as feeding is concerned the old adage you cant take out what you have put in holds good and whilst a positive appoach can work, I prefer to start with a good feed of pellet plus a sprinkling of corn or meat and then to top up regulary with small amount via a kinder pot. You could always try groundbait on one of the 8 metre lines but I would avoid the jaffas approach as you say 30lb is the target. Is it a club venue or a commercial the name might help other to be more specific.

      www.polefloatsbyjasonelwell.co.uk

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      • #4
        I used to fish the wallers avon with that exact approach - ball in a mix that had 3 pints of squatt in it at the start and catch over it all day...

        You have to tell us alot more about the venue, like the width of it (pehaps the carp are just backing off when it gets a match on it - does anyone catch on a waggler or feeder)

        If its only 20-30lb to win these matches is it possible to fish for silvers? Is there a good head of roach you could possibly catch on caster for a couple of hours - bringing these silvers into your swim will help attract the carp for later in the match.

        Personally I would leave the margin peg for at least an hour or two before you try catching there - i think you will line quite a few more fish up there if you leave them to get their heads down - sounds to me like its one of those venues where you just have to keep switching lines to keep fish coming, 30lb isnt a big weight to do this way.

        When we used to fish willow park regularly we used the tactic of balling in 4 or 5 big balls of groundbait - but not what you would call jaffas - these balls where more the size of small footballs - the reason being we found the jaffa size balls broke down too quickly and would hold the fish for only a couple of hours - with these super sized balls of groundbait we could put in less free offerings and make the fish work harder to get to the bait, this tended to keep them there for 3-4 hours without having to refeed. So if you want to try the tactic you are talking about I would personally not put too much feed into the balls but make them bigger... either that or try the silver fish approach and go for the carp later in the match... but tell us a bit more about the venue and perhaps we can help out more.
        Simon Young
        Admin
        Talk Angling UK fishing chat and tackle
        web design Doncaster - Limitless Digital

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        • #5
          Sounds like the fish are backing off. Try the waggler.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the comments so far.

            As brian suggested i often try to fish several lines on the theory that i can rotate and pick a few fish off here and there. However, the successful anglers generally feed a 11-13m line and fish it all day, just trying down the edge occasionally but rarely catching anything there. I find it hard to stick to one line but this seems to be the way people are getting results, like when the fish do arrive you have to be there and have them concentrated in one area so you dont miss them.

            The sliver fish are not worth targeting. Not enough of a good stamp.

            I have considered fishing the feeder all day- I usually give it a couple of chucks and pick up an occasional fish, or sometimes none at all. Maybe if i stuck to it and concentrated fish further out than the others (everyone fishes the pole) then this would work in the long run. Oh its about 45 meters across the lake id say, pegged both sides. The feeder will sometimes produce like a run of 2 or 3 fish, but take about 10 minutes per bite, and then completley die. So its hardly reliable.

            When i talk about fishing the inside, the fish do not build up there if you keep feeding it all day. I usually feed a top 4 either side of my platform and slightly infront where you catch loads pleasure fishing, and its literally like a canal in that you can nick a couple of early fish if they happen to be sitting there, but if you feed it all day you wont get a touch over it. Same for my slightly longer margin line often to a spare platform- fed for 2 hours or more before trying, then fed religiously all day, and not a touch.

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            • #7
              I could have written this one!! Story of my fishing life on carp pools!!
              John - Kingfisher
              Talk Angling Senior Member
              Club Record Holder on Grand Union Canal Knowle:D
              Moderator

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              • #8
                Yoda, does the venue respond to the paste? It should be working at the moment if it is...

                Also on that feeder line have you tried loosefeeding it with say 8mm pellet and chucking the bomb over it with hair rigged pellet or pellet with paste round it...
                Simon Young
                Admin
                Talk Angling UK fishing chat and tackle
                web design Doncaster - Limitless Digital

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                • #9
                  You can catch on paste, but personally i find it pointless. The fishing is so slow, it would be a nightmare constantly shipping in and out with a new blob of paste while not bringing fish back.

                  I havent tried lose feeding the feeder line, but wouldnt you think 8mm pellets are too big for target fish of under 1lb?

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                  • #10
                    Give us a bit more info to work on, How many pegs, how big is the pool/lake, how established is it, how many fish the matches and do you use all the water, you say its 6 foot deep at 8 metre going out shallower out to 16 metre, is it 6 foot at 2 metre is there a inside shelf, are there features like reeds, trees, lillies that you can fish to. If its a fairly old pool you will be surprised how undercut the banks will be the carp will get under the undercut so fish inches from the bank. A lot of questions I know but its difficult to give answers to a water we can not see.

                    www.polefloatsbyjasonelwell.co.uk

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                    • #11
                      Give us a bit more info to work on, How many pegs, how big is the pool/lake, how established is it, how many fish the matches and do you use all the water, you say its 6 foot deep at 8 metre going out shallower out to 16 metre, is it 6 foot at 2 metre is there a inside shelf, are there features like reeds, trees, lillies that you can fish to. If its a fairly old pool you will be surprised how undercut the banks will be the carp will get under the undercut so fish inches from the bank. A lot of questions I know but its difficult to give answers to a water we can not see.
                      30 pegs. 45 meters across, and not sure how long its probably 1 or 1.5 acres total size. a big rectangular shape. Not established at all was only really stocked and fished last year, its a typical puddle but without as many fish as most! Most matches would be peg 2 miss 1 to give every angler a spare peg on one side. the inside shelf is steady down to about 6 meters where it reaches about the deepest point, and then as you go past 8 meters it starts to come up gradually. a top 4 at 45 degrees from the platform gets you about 3-4ft of water which is where you can catch a lot pleasuring but is useless in a match. Its not undercut its like the platforms are wooden and go out about 2m over the lake, and its about an inch deep tight to the bank, gradually sloping down, but the fish dont come in there during the matches.

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                      • #12
                        8mm pellet for carps of any size chap.... one rule for carp is if they can get it in their gob they will eat it! IMHO you will be surprised if you give it a go me thinks!
                        Simon Young
                        Admin
                        Talk Angling UK fishing chat and tackle
                        web design Doncaster - Limitless Digital

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