Fisherfolk Pay Other River Users Don't

[peakfreak]

Hi All

Regularly the comment "We pay you don't" gets mentioned by fisherfolk. Personally I think it is a tiresome statement as we ALL know this to be categorically wrong.

So I have 2 simple questions to the fisherfolk out there that believe this statement to be true:

1. What exactly do fisherfolk feel we, as other river users, should "pay" for?

2. If fisherfolk feel so hard done for by paying, then why pay, why not lobby to get the legislation changed so you don't have to pay?

And yes, I am a paddler, but I am genuinely interested in what you as fisherfolk have to say on these points. I am not after making any offence and as always I will always be polite and considerate to all river users when I am out enjoying our natural heritage.

Regards
Bren

[Neilio]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Yes you are correct that "We pay you don't" gets mentioned a lot and i can see as an angler their point.
May be it tiresome for you to hear, but as you mention 'we ALL know this to be categorically wrong' is quite a statement. As an answer to your questions,
We the anglers think other water users should contribute financially to use the waterways as we do.
And we dont feel hard done by paying at all. So no need for some daft lobby.

I have a question for you.
To keep us from becoming tiresome please explain what contribution as a 'paddler' you make towards the upkeep of our waterways when you are 'out enjoying our natural heritage'.

To be honest I cant see why you are bothered at all with our opinion.

Neilio.

[jules-vega]

well put neilio

[peakfreak]

Hi Neilio

First of all thank you for your welcome. It's always best to be polite I feel.

You say you can see an Anglers point at the subject matter of this thread, which is what I am trying to ascertain with my questions. I have spoken with Anglers on several occasions recently about this and they all say pretty much the same thing. In that you [Anglers] pay for the upkeep of the fish stocks etc and to take what you catch away. Yes I am summarising with what is said but that is a feel a fair summary of what is said. Maybe you could elaborate further on what "the point" is.

My comment of "'we ALL know this to be categorically wrong" I do not feel is quite a statement as, without going over too much of what has already been said on many occasions, in other forums (fishing and paddling), I am sure you are well enough versed in such items as the EA & BW accounts so no need to reiterate them but we as tax payers fund the shortfall of fisheries running costs and the upkeep of BW locations.
Paddlers by way of thier membership fees of the BCU also have a proportion of the fee go towards the BW licence. Yes, not all paddlers are members of the BCU and yes, most of us are taxpayers but also not all fisherfolk pay the larger fees for fishing private locations and some fisherfolk don't pay at all either directly or indirectly.
Hopefully you will appreciate where I am coming from with my statement now.

You say you [Anglers] think that other river users should pay, which leads me to ask again my first question of what do you feel other river users should pay for, otherwise your comment just comes across as avoiding the question.

I am sure neither of us are niave enough to believe that all members of our respective groups are whiter than white and are always out for the interests of all river users but to expand on your comments of not feeling hard done by paying. As I mentioned earlier, I have spoken with several fisherfolk and I would confidently say that at least 90% of them say different but that is not a scientifc survey by any means . It does show in some form though that mixed messages do come across on the subject.

Finally in answer to your question to me, the contribution I, most fellow paddlers and several wild swimmers I speak with regularly all carry out regular organised river clean ups and at all times when out on the river we take away any litter we can, so much so that a bin bag is becoming a regular piece of paddling kit nowadays. Along with that we report any environmental issues that we notice whilst out and about to the relevant authorities. We have also on occasion been called upon to assist with rescue of life but thankfully that is on minimal occasions.
Now I am sure we [other river users] are not alone in these acts and I am sure Anglers make similar contribution also and whilst reading a thread on UKRGB where a fisherman was posting it came to light about the River Guardian scheme that the EA run, a scheme that I and other paddlers are looking into also in order to make a further voluntary contribution to the upkeep of all our [All river users] rivers.

In order to try and understand and alleviate the "tiresome" mindset mentioned, if you as fisherfolk can substantiate the claim made then maybe a better relationship can evolve so please all do contribute to the spirit of the forum.

Regards
Bren

[hurricane]

A couple of points,90% of anglers dont take what they catch the fish are returned to the river.there is only a minute amount of water that can be fished without incurring a charge on top of the EA cost. the EA charge to anglers is mandatory its not a subscription to become a member of a club,i think a lot of anglers feel this way because they have had unpleasant dealings with none anglers who use the waterways and thier reaction is why should i have to put up with this when i have payed out good money to fish,i think most anglers would like a little more consideration from other users this is not just people in boats it includes walkers ,swimmers and bikers. i aggree its a natural recourse and should be available to all,im certain that your club has some stretchs of water not available to anglers, how would you feel if 30 anglers turned up and started fishing and disrupted one of your events.hope you take these comment in the spirit they are intende.Regards Peter Tuke.

[two shakes]

Is this a joke ? or some kind of wind up ? I have heard that legislation will soon make it compulsory for "paddlers" to be licensed to use rivers the same as "fisherfolk" are.The fact is,anglers are the main reason that the rivers in this country are in such a healthy state,and even some of the most polluted now have reasonably good water quality.

[hurricane]

It does have undertones of rive t.

[fish farmer]

Am I correct in saying that other boat users pay a 'navigation fee' or something like that to travel the rivers in their craft?? If so, why chouldn't paddlerfolk pay... they are in a boat aren't they? The more users that contribute, the better the maintenance of our rivers and canals can be.

[fish farmer]

It does have undertones of rive t.

I was gonna say that, lmao

[hurricane]

Am I correct in saying that other boat users pay a 'navigation fee' or something like that to travel the rivers in their craft?? If so, why chouldn't paddlerfolk pay... they are in a boat aren't they? The more users that contribute, the better the maintenance of our rivers and canals can be.

Yes they do and most have to pay high mooring fees, but guess what? a lot of moorings are out of bounds to anglers.

[peakfreak]

..hope you take these comment in the spirit they are intende.Regards Peter Tuke.

Hi Pete
Absolutely no problem with your comments and I will always take peoples comments in a positive spirit unless otherwise directed and I would hope that the courtesy be reciprocated.

..90% of anglers dont take what they catch.

Is there any official study that leads to this statistic Pete or is it a simple survey such as my points earlier with regards to fisherfolk I have spoken with about rod fees etc? It would be interesting to see results of an official independant survey of this.
I am aware of the "put back" action and understand the thrill of the chase that is fishing, but the fish need to be there in the first place which is what your fees go towards, is it not.

...the EA charge to anglers is mandatory its not a subscription to become a member of a club...

I agree and have interated this earlier, but again your fees and my tax goes towards the upkeep of our rivers and all I take away from the river is memories and all I leave is footprints. Even when entering a river I will only seal launch from rock so there is no damage incurred. Interestingly though when speaking with a work collegue last week who fishes, we did a few rough calculations and it became clear very quickly that the land owners do seem to be takeing the mickey with fisherfolk and fees so would it not be prudent for fisherfolk to be approaching the land owners about this matter of fees? I asked the same question on UKRGB as I have asked in this thread and someone has brought to light a fair comment with regards to land owners. I will let you people make up your own minds on this.

...i think a lot of anglers feel this way because they have had unpleasant dealings with none anglers who use the waterways and thier reaction is why should i have to put up with this when i have payed out good money to fish...

All walks of life experience unpleasant dealings and we all unfortunately have to put up with the ineptitude of the recourse facilities available in this country.
I and many other river users have had to put up with violent dealings with fisherfolk e.g. lines cast at us, stones thrown, vehicles keyed etc. There is no need for it from any group. I am not aware of violence instigated by non fishing river users and should I ever hear of it I would be the first to defend the victim of such actions. I would also recommend that any actions such as the ones I mention be reported to the authorities accordingly. But this is another subject altogether and I would hope we can keep to the subject matter in question.

...,i think most anglers would like a little more consideration from other users this is not just people in boats it includes walkers ,swimmers and bikers. i aggree its a natural recourse and should be available to all,im certain that your club has some stretchs of water not available to anglers, how would you feel if 30 anglers turned up and started fishing and disrupted one of your events....

We all [Anglers and Other River Users] want consideration and again I am not aware of instances of paddlers disturbing a fishing event either deliberately or otherwise but in the event that they do I am sure the majority of river users would respond positively if fisherfolk explained politely as to the situation. Non of the clubs I paddle with have exclusive use of a river and if fisherfolk want to fish a stretch of river then feel free, it is there for all of us to use and with the correct consideration by all I really cannot see any issue arising.

Whilst I can see loosely how your comments relate to my original questions but I do not see the tangible reasons for payment as of yet, please do keep the discussions coming as I genuinely do wish to understand the reasoning behind the comment

Regards
Bren

[hurricane]

Ok then Bren i will put it as simply as i can,why do i have to pay and you dont? i will quote from another thread on here by chubby checker,each tax payer forks out 50p my costs per season are in excess of £300.00 and im sure many pay a lot more.Regards Peter.

[peakfreak]

Ok then Bren i will put it as simply as i can,why do i have to pay and you dont? i will quote from another thread on here by chubby checker,each tax payer forks out 50p my costs per season are in excess of £300.00 and im sure many pay a lot more.Regards Peter.

And what do you get for your £300+ costs?
For my 50p towards fisheries I get nothing and for my other fees to my NGB I also get very little other than insurance, insurance that is debateable but that is another story

[hurricane]

For my money i get the right to fish in a sound clean healthy ecosystem,wich is good for all,for your 50p you get exactly the same except the right to fish. Regards Peter,

[tackle tart]

peakfreak old chap, please stop refering to us as "fisherfolk." Not only do I find it extremely condescending, you make it seem like "Wind in the Willows" with Ratty, Mole, Badger, Toad and the wicked weasles. I prefer to be referred to as an "Angler" just as you refer to yourself as a "Paddler" and not a canoeist. Thankyou in advance old chap.